Micro brands.

[willy]

Lets try to be honest for once about many of these so called watch brands.To many people on here
are not thinking enough about people new to watches who read this forum.
We also have a responsibility to give new readers a honest insight into the watch world and all
the marketing tricks that are used to attract people into buying their products.
Its not just Micro brands who are guilty of this,many famous luxury brands use the same tricks.
They invent or buy stories and people,to gain credibility in their marketing of watches.
The classic one ,that most probably started the ball rolling was of course Panerai.Now i like
Panerai and i even own one,but the way they lied and invented a history for their watches
is something Walt Disney would have admired.
                              Not all Micro brands are guilty of this,many are upfront on where they
get their watches made,and they have a good customer service to back up their watches.
Many of these watches can be a cheap way for new watch people to get into what can be
a very expensive hobby for some.Luxury goods have virtually no control on the lies they
are able to tell the public.Just look at the skin care market,and the anti wrinkle cream they
are selling all over the world for Billions of dollars.And science tells us no such cream exists
Since i started reading and buying watches about 55 years ago,the marketing tricks have 
become more and more sophisticated.Many brands use their own paid bloggers to write
on watch sites to promote their watches.Most reviews you read are not worth the paper they
are written on,because many of them are paid for.Then we have the influencers,the people
who get invited to the watch brands little cosy evenings.Then they post a lot of beautiful
pictures,and non critical words about the brands involved.Many of them are being used,and
have no idea it is happening.Many make little private facebook groups or closed meetings,
where they can meet other people with opinions that fit in to their own opinions.In other
words a bunch of back clapping uncritical people ,where you must conform to become a part of 
the group.God forbid, these people ever call a watch,a piece of marketing junk,even if it is
true.Usually they cannot discuss the watch involved,they prefer to go after the person who
dared to upset their applecart.
                               Micro brands have filled a gap in the watch market and have made
many of the established brands up their game.Lets face it many top brands where putting
800 kroner calibers in watches and selling them for 30.000 kroner or more.Micro brands
showed you could make the same watches for under 8000 kr and still make a profit !
                     My point is that it is a jungle out there,and people new to watches are
left alone in it.That is why many come on to sites like this,to learn about watches.
They will not learn anything unless we can show them all the sides of the argument for
and against certain watches.I cannot remember when i last read ,one of the members
of this site called a watch bad,or a cheap marketing trick.Maybe its because we do not 
research these brands enough,or we believe all the sales rubbish?
                                Then we have the argument that we do not wish to offend a new
person coming onto this site,by telling them they just bought a watch that does not
live up to the marketing hype they have read.What a pathetic excuse for not giving a
honest opinion! Then we have the usual reply i often get.Why do you think that the only
truth is your own.Another pathetic answer! Its just my opinion folks about a dead thing
Talk about the watch in question ,argue for it and tell me why you disagree with my opinion.

[jazzman]

I like to hear aboute the panerai bs, willy


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[Stensbjerg]

Udfordringen er willy (in my view) at det som du ser som et problemet (new to watches left alone)
måske ikke er et problem som andre har/ser heller ikke dem som er nye inden for ure,
jeg ved at du kommer med fred men noget af dit ord valg kan tolkes som mere krig end fred.

Som du er inde på sker denne markedes pleje inden for alle brancher i dag
der skal kæmpes for kunderne, jeg kan ikke se at ur firmaerne kan leve af at sælge ure til ur tosser som os, der skal laves et stort benarbejde for at sælge et produkt med max profit på hver enhed da ure genrelt kan ses som forældet af kommende generationer ihvertfald nogle mærker, derfor kan deres "nye masse produktion tilgang" ikke rigtig sætte noget i gang hos mig.

Vi to kender hinanden og har talt om flere udfordringer i ur verden noget er vi enige om
andet er vi mere delt, når jeg læser dit indlæg popper 2 spørgsmål op hos mig.

Hvad er vores "pligt" herinde over for nye der "kigger ind" egentlig?
Er vores personlige holdning mere rigtig end en som kigger ind?

Du giver selv svaret på 2eren syntes hvorfor du så også modsiger dig selv lidt syntes jeg,
det man skriver er generelt ens egen personlige holdning og ikke mere.

Og derfor ikke en "drejebog" omkring hvad der er rigtig og forkert i urverden som jeg syntes du lidt er ude i at vi skal kunne levere, jeg har den holdning at hvis køber og sælger er tilfreds så er det en god handel, og hvis køber ved hvad han eller hun har købt så er alt godt.

Ønsker en køber før eller efter en evt. handel at får et forums holdning til et ur (inde som ude)
så kan man spørger ind til det, f.eks herinde hos folk som nørder på området.

[willy]

The problem is Jacob,that morality comes in all shapes and disguises.I like to call a spade a spade.
It is just to easy for people with no knowledge of watches,to be fooled by false marketing.
And most people who join a watch site,do so to get information and learn about watches.
So they need people with some experience of watches to give them some qualified answers.
You have learnt about watches by reading, or talking to people who have knowledge about them.
Having known you for many years,i know that you prefer if people tell you their honest opinions.
And i also know that you fully understand the marketing bullshit,that is in the watch world.
Why not pass this experience and information on to people who can put it to good use when
buying their next watch? What you say about my own personal meaning,could not be more true.
I mean,what else do we have my friend? This is a debate forum,and we have many different
opinions on watches here.And all of these opinions have a place here.Nobody has got the
absolute truth about watches in their repertoire.We give opinions,and we let people make
their own decisions.
                               I do not care if firms are fighting for their share of the market,they have
very big budgets compared to the average person.It is always the consumer that needs protection.
My sister has a son who is a director of a company that do nothing else but manipulate what
we all read on the net.He is a rich man,and business is thriving.The consumer is really up
against it today,and most of it is based on lies.So i think that if we can help new watch buyers
to find their way around the watch world,it is a good idea in my opinion.
We both know why i wrote this thread.  When someone posts something that is completely
untrue,and is a clear marketing trick designed to make people believe they are buying a watch
from an old established brand,and hand made,to boot,what is wrong with pointing this out?
I am not here to be a diplomat,i just give my opinion.If you disagree ,you write what you
disagree with,and we have a debate.
                              To be honest i get so tired of people on this site just back clapping
one another,you would think every watch ever made is great if you read this forum for
the first time  Just like our parents try to prepare us for the grown up world,i
am pleased my parents did not feel the need to be diplomatic or accept the lies we get
told everyday. I think many forget this when they enter the real world where telling lies
is just everyday business they like to call marketing.

[Stensbjerg]

Vi er enige langt hen af vejen ven,
jeg ser det bare ikke som min opgave at oplyse hvis der ikke spørges.

Og jeg har egentlig aldrig deltage på forum for direkte at lære noget,
men mere for at møde ligesindet (uden at skulle forklare) og få inspiration.

Verdens forfald på området (markedting) beskæftiger jeg mig ikke med,
dertil er min tid for kostbar og jeg ikke tror på reinkarnation

[willy]

I understand and respect that Jacob,we are all different in our approach to
things.You know i enjoy looking for the clever people always trying to fool
the other people,its a game   I love to learn and i will never stop,
and it gives me some satisfaction if i can make people new to watches
aware of what they buy.Even though it is a decision they have to make
alone.Nobody gets hurt by a bit of extra knowledge 

[runzuk5]

Jeg vil sku altid være mest til mikro brands


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[willy]

(11-12-2020, 11:39 AM)runzuk5 Skrev:
Jeg vil sku altid være mest til mikro  brands


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They are not all bad,and life would be a bit more boring without them