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+--- Tråd: Hvad sker der for Panerai - PAM318!! (/showthread.php?tid=77815)
Re: Hvad sker der for Panerai - PAM318!! - AndersC - 13-11-2012
Her er et uddrag fra en artikel i Handelszeitung.ch fra 2008.
Manufacture Horlogère ValFleurier
'Panerai wichtigster Auftraggeber'
'Ganz oben steht Panerai, der erste und wichtigste Auftraggeber. Alle gewerblichen Manufakturaktivitäten der Marke mit den italienischen Wurzeln gehen hier über die Bühne. Will heissen: Hier entstehen die Komponenten, welche später in Neuenburg bei Panerai zu kompletten Uhren weiterverarbeitet werden.'
Hele artiklen er her [url]"http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehmen/val-plus-fleurier-gleich-valfleurier" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehme ... alfleurier[/url]" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Hvad sker der for Panerai - PAM318!! - willy - 14-11-2012
jonnielse Skrev:I have no doubt that Richmont want Panerai to become a serious caliber producer . The market for Panerai watches is growing all the time . And if you read Jack Forester on Pam calibers , there is no doubt that they intend to become a top caliber maker .Claus Tukjær Skrev:willy Skrev:No but JLC developed their new inhouse calibers for them . A brand like Panerai do not become a manufacturer overnight . WillyVenter stadig på beviser og ikke blot links til gamle modeller
Panerai blev ikke producent "over night". De startede deres udvikling i 2002 med et team af "In-house" tekniske designere og de hyrede folk med de kvalifikationer som de behøvede ledet af Eric Klein.
I 2005 var deres udvikling og oplæg til produktion klar og Richemont købte nogle mindre fabrikslokaler, hvor man i dag producerer deres in-house værker.
At tage den beslutning i 2002, passer nok meget godt overens med et ønske om at frigøre sig fra ETA.
En tre-årig handlingsplan, hvor man delvist køber sig til nødvendige kompetencer, udvikler nogle fremragende værker og laver en fabrik med kvalitetskontrol der er højere end COSC, er i mine øjne da ganske seriøst:-)
Alt in-house udvikling bærer præg af hel eller delvist inspiration fra andre producenter og jeg mener alle!!!! Men dette gør der ikke mindre "in-house". Ellers ville man ikke kunne tillade sig at resette sit kronograf med Nicolet hjerte, da det er stjålet, eller hvad er alternativet til en balance og genopfind lige optræksfjederen:-)
But it takes a long time and a lot of money to achieve this . And there are many brands who produce their own calibers but they are not true manufactures . Because many of the components and expertise is from other manufactures like Roger Dubois-JLC- ETA etc etc .
Many brands make a few top calibers each year inhouse , it gives them credibility in the eyes of many watch people . But not me .
Because they make a few hundred watches with good calibers and thousands with shit calibers does not impress me .
Panerai are no where near the standard of IWC -JLC -Rolex in their bread and butter watches . Maybe they will in the future , who knows ?
Panerai have worked together with JLC for many years now . They are both part of the Richmont group , and all brands in that group use the same expertise at their disposal .
JLC are the caliber developer and manufacturer supreme , Patek - IWC- VC have all used JLC components and calibers . And the have all used the expertise of JLC in making their own calibers . Panerai are doing the same today .
There is nothing wrong with this , it has been a swiss tradition for about 100 years . Panerai are in reality a young brand who are still learning .
There is no 100% proof that JLC supply finished calibers to Panerai . Richmont - JLC-would never ever admit to supplying calibers to anyone . Some watch experts speculate and write pieces about calibers , and try to trace their roots .
Tag Heuer announced a new caliber , and experts could see it was a Seiko caliber in disguise . Some times they get found out , sometimes not .
From what i have heard and read . I believe JLC developed the new Pam calibers . And i think they supply many of the components to Panerai . Some might disagree with this , that is their own choice . Willy
Re: Hvad sker der for Panerai - PAM318!! - Mads Gjødesen - 14-11-2012
Det er barnelærdom for enhver Paneristi, at JLC leverede værker til en række modeller som PAM190, Radiomir GMT, osv, som flere også er inde på, og disse er ALDRIG blevet kaldt in-house. Jeg er heller ikke bekendt med at JLC skulle konstruere og producere Panerais værker, men vil da gerne se/høre dette fra en PÅLIDELIG kilde. At finde et tilfældigt link på en b-ur-side, der nævner at JLC sikkert har været indeover et sted i processen er bare ikke holdbar. Men det er jo ikke første gang vi ser at konspirationsteorier pludselig er blevet til fakta <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Kildevurdering og kritik er ikke uvæsentlig!!!
Fandt disse på youtube om hvordan Panerai in-house laves. Ret sikker på det er fra Panerais egen fabrik!
Del 1: [url]"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namj9CES-TE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namj9CES-TE[/url]
Del 2: [url]"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNcf5o9N3WA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNcf5o9N3WA[/url]
/Mads
Re: Hvad sker der for Panerai - PAM318!! - willy - 15-11-2012
Mads Gjødesen Skrev:Det er barnelærdom for enhver Paneristi, at JLC leverede værker til en række modeller som PAM190, Radiomir GMT, osv, som flere også er inde på, og disse er ALDRIG blevet kaldt in-house. Jeg er heller ikke bekendt med at JLC skulle konstruere og producere Panerais værker, men vil da gerne se/høre dette fra en PÅLIDELIG kilde. At finde et tilfældigt link på en b-ur-side, der nævner at JLC sikkert har været indeover et sted i processen er bare ikke holdbar. Men det er jo ikke første gang vi ser at konspirationsteorier pludselig er blevet til fakta <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Kildevurdering og kritik er ikke uvæsentlig!!!Believing all the sales crap that watch brands put out is quite normal for people who have an intrest in selling watches . Reading between the lines and listenig to gosip is sometimes the only way to get at the truth . Just like politics
Fandt disse på youtube om hvordan Panerai in-house laves. Ret sikker på det er fra Panerais egen fabrik!
Del 1: [url]"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namj9CES-TE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namj9CES-TE[/url]" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Del 2: [url]"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNcf5o9N3WA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNcf5o9N3WA[/url]" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
/Mads
The only real conspiracy is the one watch brands make with one another . Its the same story with bloggs like Time Zone who were taken over by Antiquorum so they could get rid of the real watch critics . Most bloggs out there are nothing but controlled selling sites .
It is very rare indeed to read any real criticism of watches today , because to many people get to involved with people who sell watches . I really cannot remember when i last read any real criticism on any brand site . So if people wish to believe the sales guf about Panerai and many other brands so be it .
I must admit the watch buisiness is begining to remind me of the cosmetics buisiness . And by the way Panerai did not claim that JLC calibers were their own . But they sure as hell did not go out of their way to inform the general public of this fact . I call that dishonest and typical sales bullshit . And if people wish to believe that Panerai make everything with their own sweet little hands , who am i to destroy their dreams ? Willy P:S . Is that a Panerai sales vidio you have found there Mads ? Who do you think pays , so we can watch these wonderfull TV Stations ?
Re: Hvad sker der for Panerai - PAM318!! - Kristofferj - 15-11-2012
Ikke at det har så meget med Panerai at gøre, og så aligevel.
"I feel embarrassed for the industry today in general, I find it very unjust that certain (brands/people) have sold watches 10 times more expensive than what they are really worth. It will take me about a week to make each one of my watches, so how is it possible for certain brands to make over 10,000 pieces a year with only 20 or so watchmakers in their workshops? If we do the math, that means an average of 10 watches a week per watchmaker, without considering vacations! It's becoming more urgent to sell watches for their real worth, like everything in life. I expect a beneficial effect from the current economic crisis, in the sense that going forward the collector will be more discerning about their new watch purchases."
Dette er et citat fra den meget anerkendte urmager Ludovic Ballouard, der både har laver sine egne ure, men også har arbejdet for F P Journe.
Det er et meget rammende udtalelse fra en mand der givetvis ved hvad han snakker om.
Hele artiklen kan findes her: [url]"http://www.ablogtowatch.com/ludovic-ballouard-upside-down-watch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ablogtowatch.com/ludovic-bal ... own-watch/[/url]" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;