Forskellen på to seiko modeller ?

[Joepete]

Tokunaga, som er en af ingeniørerne bag mange af Seiko´s divere, har skrevet dette om de L-formede pakninger:

"Our research and development was done as the perfect He-mixed-gas diver's watch of the 6159 professional 600m diver's watch in 1975.

We designed the diver's watch as the development target that the inner pressure of the watch case did not go up in high-pressure helium mixture gas like Rolex etc., and the development of the special quality gasket of the material of Improved-IIR(Isobutylene-isoprene rubber) and in the structure development of the watch case we used the glass gasket of L type and one-piece case became the conclusive factor in the He-tightness.

As the result of the experiment, the penetration of helium gas is suppressed by about 1/100 to the conventional watch case, the inner pressure of the case does not turn into high pressure and the diver's watch of the ideal saturation diving specification which does not need "helium gas escape valve" is completed, and the SEIKO professional diver's watches lead the diver's watch world after that watch as "a diver's watch which is proud of the highest water- tightness and air-tightness in the world."

Please use forever regularly those SEIKO products which are proud of the excellent performance if you please.

Sincerely yours,
Ikuo Tokunaga"

[willy]

Joepete Skrev:Tokunaga, som er en af ingeniørerne bag mange af Seiko´s divere, har skrevet dette om de L-formede pakninger:

"Our research and development was done as the perfect He-mixed-gas diver's watch of the 6159 professional 600m diver's watch in 1975.

We designed the diver's watch as the development target that the inner pressure of the watch case did not go up in high-pressure helium mixture gas like Rolex etc., and the development of the special quality gasket of the material of Improved-IIR(Isobutylene-isoprene rubber) and in the structure development of the watch case we used the glass gasket of L type and one-piece case became the conclusive factor in the He-tightness.

As the result of the experiment, the penetration of helium gas is suppressed by about 1/100 to the conventional watch case, the inner pressure of the case does not turn into high pressure and the diver's watch of the ideal saturation diving specification which does not need "helium gas escape valve" is completed, and the SEIKO professional diver's watches lead the diver's watch world after that watch as "a diver's watch which is proud of the highest water- tightness and air-tightness in the world."

Please use forever regularly those SEIKO products which are proud of the excellent performance if you please.

Sincerely yours,
Ikuo Tokunaga"

Citat:

I should have put this in my review and about the anti magnetic property of the SBDX001.I think you should add this Jhon.It explains the case completly.Willy

[Joepete]

The entire construction of the MM300 is aimed at this watch being a diver´s watch that can be used for professional use. I know that it would probably not be used professionally nowadays, but it has it´s roots in the professional dive world, as it´s "forefather" (300m 6159 Hi-Beat driven monocoque piece) was close to being made "upon request" - different story, sorry

In the above, the L-shaped gasket has been introduced and Willy is totally correct, when pointing out that the antimagnetic feature of the MM300 just adds to it´s term as a professional diver

I have not been able to find a cross section drawing for the MM300, but only for a 1000m professional Tuna. In the link below, Tokunaga explains, amongst others, how anti magnetic ability is achieved in the large shrouded diver´s. I am pretty sure that antimagnetic ability is similarily achieved in a MM300

[url]"http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php?topic=283.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php?topic=283.0[/url]

[willy]

Joepete Skrev:The entire construction of the MM300 is aimed at this watch being a diver´s watch that can be used for professional use. I know that it would probably not be used professionally nowadays, but it has it´s roots in the professional dive world, as it´s "forefather" (300m 6159 Hi-Beat driven monocoque piece) was close to being made "upon request" - different story, sorry

In the above, the L-shaped gasket has been introduced and Willy is totally correct, when pointing out that the antimagnetic feature of the MM300 just adds to it´s term as a professional diver

I have not been able to find a cross section drawing for the MM300, but only for a 1000m professional Tuna. In the link below, Tokunaga explains, amongst others, how anti magnetic ability is achieved in the large shrouded diver´s. I am pretty sure that antimagnetic ability is similarily achieved in a MM300

[url]"http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php?topic=283.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php?topic=283.0[/url]" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Citat:

IWC also built their divers without the helium valve.And they built the most anti magnetic diver ever made to this day.The Porsche design diver built for the german frog man special unit is an incredible piece of engineering.Rix watches in frankfurt have one for sale 15.000 euro.I read the story about how IWC built this watch unbelievable.It is totaly anti magnetic . willy

[Joepete]

So is the price, Willy <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

[willy]

Joepete Skrev:So is the price, Willy <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Citat:

i got the price wrong it is only 16600 euro <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> It is the ref-3519.Ocean 2000.And believe me if i had the money i would buy it.It is truly one of the most unique watches ever built.There really is nothing by any brand that even comes close to this watch.I think if you google it you will see what i mean.It makes other anti magnetic watches seem like Walt Disney made them <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Willy

[Joepete]

It sure is unique, Willy

[hannover_dk]

I understand completely the thing about gaskets which can withstand helium from coming into the watch - which is of course for Helium chambers - and if helium can penetrate the watch, then once the diver is out in free open air, the crystal can pop of due to the higher pressure inside the watch - from helium which may have penetrated under higher pressure, and now escapes by puffing of the crystal.

Here several watches Seiko/Iwc - (and the old ploprof I THINK) do not have a helium valve, but is constructed much stronger - especially with regard to the crystal-fitting, and they are safe with helium tanks still.

What I do not understand is the bit about the rating for depth, where some watches can "withstand mixed gas" used for saturation diving - as I believe that to be the mixed gas in bottle (and not air or oxygen as for shorter dives) as the watch can never get in contact with that mixed gas

It is also hard to understand that those watches which can withstand mixed gas used for saturated dives can also withstand diving in over 200 meters depth for a longer period? I would have thought if it could withstand the pressure in 10 minutes, then it also could do that for 35 minutes, but there I may be wrong.

The fact that for saturation diving, the diver is down much longer time, is correct and also that the diver also requires helium tanks for the return. For that the special gaskets withstanding helium make a lot of sense.

I think I am probably just missing the clue, and hopefully - one day - I well find it (if not I will live happily)
br

[Joepete]

The SAT term is just an expression, John, and has nothing to do with "withstanding mixed gas", as I understand things. I might be wrong though, but until we get one of the professional diver´s on to this thread, this is how I understand things:

The whole point is that when You go for a professional dive at perhaps 175 meters, You use "mixed gas" AND you need to use a helium chamber when ascending. It is therefor crucial that Your watch (if using such an "old-timer" ) can cope with helium and take the very big pressur at those depths.

I am not quite sure from where You get the 10 minute vs 35 minutes ... ? I would trust the MM300 professional diver´s watch to be descended as long as the diver would want it to be

I have sent SK an e-mail to get his assistance on this - I think we need it

[hannover_dk]

Joepete Skrev:The SAT term is just an expression, John, and has nothing to do with "withstanding mixed gas", as I understand things. I might be wrong though, but until we get one of the professional diver´s on to this thread, this is how I understand things:

The whole point is that when You go for a professional dive at perhaps 175 meters, You use "mixed gas" AND you need to use a helium chamber when ascending. It is therefor crucial that Your watch (if using such an "old-timer" ) can cope with helium and take the very big pressur at those depths.

I am not quite sure from where You get the 10 minute vs 35 minutes ... ? I would trust the MM300 professional diver´s watch to be descended as long as the diver would want it to be

I have sent SK an e-mail to get his assistance on this - I think we need it

Lad os bare gå til dansk igen - sikker på Willy sagtens følger os. Jeg tror du har ret JoePete, at det med forlænget tid, ikke har at gøre med at uret er sikkert i forhold til at ha på i lang tid under vand - men jeg fik det fra, at ISO 6425 foregår i så lang tids test - i forhold til den "billigere ISO"
Som et par eksempler i uddrag fra ISO 6425 med tiden som faktor
ISO 6425 water resistance testing of a diver's watch consists of:
Immersion of the watch in 30 cm of water for 50 hours.
Immersion of the watch in a suitable pressure vessel and subjecting it to 125% of the rated pressure for 2 hours.
(som kunne være for at dykkeren kunne være nede de der 2 timer)

I beskrivelse for Seiko står det jo klart, at mixed gas diving IKKE refererer til mixed gas som man har i flasken til de lange dyk (hvor man ikke kan bruge alm luft eller ilt), men til mixed gas i helium kammer - netop for at sik:

Seiko SBBN007 Professional Diver's 300 m for mixed-gas diving.
For mixed-gas diving the watch has to be immersed in a suitable pressure vessel and subjecting it to 125% of the rated pressure for 15 days in a (helium enriched) breathing gas mix. Subsequently the overpressure shall be reduced to normal pressure within 3 minutes. No evidence of water intrusion, condensation or problems caused by internal overpressure are allowed.

Så det er nok sådan, at urene ikke specielt kan være længere nede men at testen kræver længere tid, og det giver jo ekstra sikkehed for tiden, og mixed gas er helium kammer.
vh