Investment or not

[willy]

(01-01-2016, 01:27 PM)TopClocks Skrev:

(01-01-2016, 11:43 AM)willy Skrev:
Hi Top Clocks,
                    Do you work for the Patek PR department ? If i had the time,i could do exactly what you have done. I could google just as many and maybe more statements about Lange verses Patek etc etc. Do you really imagine that anyone can find everything they have read on the net at will? If you made an effort,i am sure you can find conflicting arguments for any subject you can name on the net.
                                         We can only give opinions here. Your arguments with a few links,seem to have another agenda.I could put links on everything i write,but would that give my own opinion? Or would i be doing what you are doing?You are just repeating a few scources. What about the thousands of scources that do not agree with you?
                                            I can go on the net right now, and use a lot of time to find all the statements from watch writers, who agree with me. But i have to ask you,what does this prove?
                                       Would it mean i was right,if i found more links than you? We could fill this site up in no time,if we all did this.Would people on this site,really like to be asked for documentation that proves that everything they write is true?

                                         Everything we read is not always true,especially about watches. Anyone who took the time to read the history of watchmaking, would know,that very few people write the truth about it. Not even the sales numbers given by many brands are true.I take everything they write or say with a pinch of salt.
                                    I do not know who you are, or what you do. And i do not really care. You have had obviously just one thing in your mind. And that is to try and discredit me in the eyes of the members of this site. You mention my name in nearly every sentence you write.Why is this?This is a watch blogg,were we give our opinions of watches,it is not a class room in a school.
                                 Why beat about the bush? Just come straight out with it,and call me liar and fantasist who invents everything i write.I am not a expert,and neither are you.But at least i do not hide.

                                   Your arguments are so one sided, that i do not give them a lot of weight.But at the same time they are informative.I could use the next couple of days finding links that praise Lange and put down Patek.But i ask you.,What is the point? I try to paint a general picture,with my own opinions with my writing.I do not want to just repeat what others have written.I hope you can understand this.Education has got nothing to do with it. Or would you like a watch site,that only caters for a well educated elite, and trys to put down the people who left school to early

                                         We could take a vote. Those who want a watch site were everything you write must come with documentation ie. other peoples opinions. Or a site for everyone who has their own opinions about watches.

                            And i would like to finish by stating this.Everything i write is what i have learned,and it is my honest opinion.I have never,and never will write anything that i know to be a lie.

Nej, jeg arbejder ikke for Patek, ellers havde jeg været fri for det kolde vintervejr i Skandinavien.  

Det er ikke for at være nedladende, idet jeg ikke er fan af den adfærd - dog vidner dit respons alene om et desperat forsøg på ikke at reagere konkret på en ellers fyldestgørende og nuanceret reaktion. Det er ikke god stil efter min opfattelse. Du er noget oppe i årene, hvorfor jeg antager at du er pensionist. Hvis det ikke er tilfældet, bør du i mindste have tilstrækkeligt med tid til at fremskaffe dokumentation for alle de udsagn, du frembringer i denne og andre tråde, især med ''tusinder'' af kilder - som angiveligt er frit tilgængelige. Derfor er mit svar på dit andet spørgsmål; ja.   

''I can go on the net right now, and use a lot of time to find all the statements from watch writers, who agree with me.''

Du ville fremstå mere troværdig, hvis du kunne gøre det. Det bør i øvrigt ikke tage lang tid eftersom der findes +1.000 kilder ifølge dit udsagn. Jeg vil i øvrigt understrege, at det ikke er et spørgsmål om kvantitet, hvorfor jeg langt hellere foretrækker at læse et mindre antal artikler, hvis indhold fremstår sagligt og objektivt. Kvalitet fremfor kvantitet. Desuden er jeg helst interesseret i udsagn fra sagkyndige og lignende, idet udsagn fra selvproklamerede profeter ikke kan bruges i den her kontekst. Jeg vil derfor ligeledes svare ''ja'' til dit sjette spørgsmål, idet du fremstiller en række fakta, som - i en debat af denne karakter - bør være en selvfølge, især da du selv læner dig op af dem. Mit svar er bl.a. begrundet af hensyn til indholdet, idet du formår at fremstille dine udsagn som værende den absolutte sandhed, hvilket understøttes med flere ikke-eksisterende kilder. 

Jeg er i den sammenhæng forbavset over det forhold, at du faktisk modsiger dig selv, hvilket bestyrker en formodning for en eller flere opdigtede forhold. Du henviser i starten af dit indlæg til +1.000 artikler, mens du efterfølgende diskrediterer dem følgende kommentar; ''Everything we read is not always true, especially about watches. Anyone who took the time to read the history of watchmaking, would know, that very few people write the truth about it.''

Hvordan kan der være +1.000 artikler, hvis ganske få individer beretter om ''sandheden''? Hertil kommer, at hvis stort set ingen fortæller sandheden, hvilken garanti har læserne af denne tråd for indholdet af dine ''kilder'', som netop danner grundlag for dine udsagn? Hvis du ikke kan understøtte dine udsagn, er der ret beset tale om indholdsløse postulater som er baseret på din egen holdning. Det er helt i orden, at give udtryk for sin holdning - dog gælder det samtidigt at præsentere dem som værende ens egen holdning i stedet for et faktum. Førstnævnte er en subjektiv størrelse, mens sidstnævnte er en objektiv størrelse. Hvis jeg skulle investerer mine penge i et ur, vil jeg klart foretrække at træffe min beslutning på et informeret grundlag.

Jeg foretrækker en bred sammensætning af entusiaster, da det er med til at give et bredere perspektiv, hvorfor jeg ikke ser et behovfor at drage et skel mellem en ''over- og underklasse''. Jeg nævnte intet om et forum forbeholdt eliten.  

Jeg siger ikke at ure skal være en akademisk disciplin - dog fremstiller du en række forhold, som værende den rene sandhed, hvorfor jeg foretrækker kildehenvisninger i den type af tråde, hvorfor jeg også vil svare ''ja'' til en afstemning herom. Du opfordres til at følge min velmente opfordring. Dernæst opfordres du til konkret at komme med passende modargumenter, idet dit indlæg ret beset udgør et forsøg på at ''vikle'' dig udenom et konkret svar på tiltale. Det er i hvert fald ikke god stil i debatter, hvilket leder mine tanker hen på flere politikere i højre- og venstrefløjen som jævnligt ikke svarer konkret på spørgsmål fra vedholdende journalister.  

You say you are not a fan of my conduct.This is interesting for me.I have never questioned other peoples conduct on a watch site.But i do question  their motives.You have really no right what so ever to question the conduct of people who are just giving their opinions.Usually it is people who are basicly cowards,who hide behind anonmity.We do not know if you are working for Patek or own a big collection of them.It would give us all a better insight if we knew your motives.It really makes me laugh,when you use words like Kildehenvisninger.The human brain is filled with billions of them.Or do you only believe what others tell you?
                                    It seems to me that you honestly believe everything you read.So i would like to give you just one example of the basic flaws that i think you have.

                                    You put a question mark about the number of watches Lange make.I said 5-6000 you say more.Well i would never dispute this by finding some link that backed up what i have said.Because i know that productions numbers by watch brands is a very grey area.And nobody,including you know the real numbers.You can Google til the cows come home,it will not help you.But we do know that Patek make a lot more watches than Lange.But you think i should be absolutly on target.This is very hard to do because i have read hundreds of different numbers on hundreds of watch sites.So why should people believe yours or mine are correct?

                                                            You also mention the type of people you like to see on a watch site.This statement is quite unbelievable,and i hope you are not serious.What you like or do not like to see is of absolutly no interest to anyone else.All are welcome here.And people do not need others who think they can set the standards for them.This is without a doubt one of the most arrogant things i have read so far,on any watch site.
                                       I honestly think your motives for writing here are personall.And you are not keeping to the subject this thread started with.I have promised the moderators on this site,not to be drawn into personal arguments that throw us all off course.It was a good thread were we all just exchanged our opinions.But as usual someone gets personal.I think this is very sad.In the future when someone mentions my name in a thread,it had better be to disagree with my opinions,but not my person.
                      This thread is closed for me now.