ETA Or a good Quartz ?
#1
What would you spend your hard earned money on given the choice of a watch with a high end quartz caliber or a basic ETA or Selita caliber?

I would take the Quartz everytime . The reasons are these . I consider watches with basic ETA
mechanical calibers to be totally uninteresting and without any soul or watchmaking skill at all . I know they are reliable and cheap to
service , but for me thats it . I think that brands like Brietling or Oris etc etc are grossly overpriced when you think about what is
inside their watches . From my point of view they are nothing more than design watches without one bit of watchmaking skill . Brands
like IWC or Ulysse Nardin used to get ETA calibers in kits from the factory , and modify and finish them to such an extent they were
entitled to call them inhouse . This does not happen to 99.9% of all ETA or Selita calibers . And any watch that contains these calibers
is in my eyes inferior to a high end caliber quartz watch , in terms of watchmaking know how .

If i had the choice between a Grand Seiko Quartz or absolutly any watch with a basic ETA
caliber in it . Then i would take the GS quartz everytime . I just cannot feel anything for watches with mass produced mechanical calibers
without much effort put into them . People say Quartz has no soul , i say that is bullshit . The effort and skill involved with making many
quartz watches far surpasses many mechanical watches . I know for a fact that to compair my Rolex Quartz caliber with any mass produced
mechanical caliber would be a joke . The Rolex quartz is just so much better in any way you want to look at it .

I ask this question . Why do you spend your money on a mechanical watch with a run of the
mill caliber ? Is it because you think it has soul and more skill involved than quartz ? Do you believe the fairy stories watch brands
tell you about how much watchmaking skill is put into a mechanical watch ?

I am aware that ETA and Selita have used a awfull lot of know how and watchmaking skill
in developing their calibers . But their interest is just to make a mechanical caliber that works , does not cost much and is easy to service.
That is exactly what you get when you buy the cheapest quartz watch Icon_e_smile

I visited the Rolex watch site last year . A guy was writing about his quartz watch . 90% of
the replies he got were telling him his watch was just a quartz without any soul or skill involved in the making of it . I thought what
a bunch of ill informed idiots there are on this site . But unfortunately there are many of these fools in the watch world . They
have been indoctrinated by watch brands into believing that mechanical is always that little bit better than quartz .

Many of these so called great watch collectors should really be called snob value collectors.
I have often found that after talking to them , that their watch making knowledge is severly limited to certain brands or certain watches .
Many of them know absolutly nothing about watches that do not fall into their sphere of interest .

Make no mistake i love mechanical watches . It will always fascinate me about the skill involved in
making somthing that can tell you the time by using knowledge obtained by history and the ultimate micro engineering skill mankind
can achieve . And i can say truthfully that i have respect for quartz or any other way of telling the time . For me it is the idea that
is most important , and the way it is put into practice that counts .
Willy
- Jeg er engelsk - bor i Danmark, forstår dansk - men foretrækker at skrive på engelsk Icon_smil
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#2
basically I understand and agree BUT I do not look down on other people just because they are snob value collectors, or know little about watches

IF they love a Breitling or an Oris with an ETA and like the look and the idea of a machanical watch, then fine with me. It repeats it self in choice of clothing, the price does not necesarily reflect the workmanship or quality, and in so many ways. Actually looking down at people who love their Breitling and think they have the finest watch in the world - to me is in a different league of snobbing - as I know the truth and know better

If we all made sence, then probably all would have a Seiko on their arm, drive a Berlingo - and all clothing would be bought a Coop. We could look at eachother and say - THAT is a clever man - but it would be a sad world - so in defence of the ETA watch lovers, don't worry, is quite alright
br John
Mvh. John  - Glad for ure og frisk på lidt iværksætterråd.
Besøg min blog med gode råd til iværksættere!
Besøg min blog om ure!
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#3
hannover_dk Skrev:basically I understand and agree BUT I do not look down on other people just because they are snob value collectors, or know little about watches

IF they love a Breitling or an Oris with an ETA and like the look and the idea of a machanical watch, then fine with me. It repeats it self in choice of clothing, the price does not necesarily reflect the workmanship or quality, and in so many ways. Actually looking down at people who love their Breitling and think they have the finest watch in the world - to me is in a different league of snobbing - as I know the truth and know better

If we all made sence, then probably all would have a Seiko on their arm, drive a Berlingo - and all clothing would be bought a Coop. We could look at eachother and say - THAT is a clever man - but it would be a sad world - so in defence of the ETA watch lovers, don't worry, is quite alright
br John
I do not look down on them John , in fact i do not look down on anyone We all have our likes and dislikes , and our beliefs and
non beliefs . But many people who buy wristwatches have a falsh idea about what they have bought . And often look down on other people
who own a quartz watch . To try to make people aware and broaden their horizen is what all watch sites should be about . We cannot live in
a world were the lowest common denominator rules . The price of most watches with a basic ETA caliber does in know way reflect the
price they are selling them for . And by the way the Berlingo is in my opinion a piece of crap , give me a Japanese or German car anytime <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->
Willy
- Jeg er engelsk - bor i Danmark, forstår dansk - men foretrækker at skrive på engelsk Icon_smil
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#4
we agree of course BUT I am just making the point that it is not always quality or most value for money which drive us - and it is not really so important to most people if a Breitling has an ETA or whatever inside - We know and can agree on what is handmade and what is not and what the price should be, but that is as uninteresting to many as the question of value for money in a ferrari against a toyota - we do not always buy value for money, but fall in love - with a Breitling or an Oris

I do not - but those who does, shall not have to give any kind of explanation as to why they do and they havent been fooled or tricked into it - they have bought a watch which with the ETA will be working for years and years

I have my CWC quarz 1990 on the wrist today - love it
Mvh. John  - Glad for ure og frisk på lidt iværksætterråd.
Besøg min blog med gode råd til iværksættere!
Besøg min blog om ure!
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#5
hannover_dk Skrev:we agree of course BUT I am just making the point that it is not always quality or most value for money which drive us - and it is not really so important to most people if a Breitling has an ETA or whatever inside - We know and can agree on what is handmade and what is not and what the price should be, but that is as uninteresting to many as the question of value for money in a ferrari against a toyota - we do not always buy value for money, but fall in love - with a Breitling or an Oris

I do not - but those who does, shall not have to give any kind of explanation as to why they do and they havent been fooled or tricked into it - they have bought a watch which with the ETA will be working for years and years

I have my CWC quarz 1990 on the wrist today - love it
You are of course right in what you say John . And i understand your point .
But people do like to be informed . And there are many who do not know what they are paying for . That is why we have watch sites .
And it is a good thing that you can point out that everything is just not Black and White . I used to believe everything i was told , but i
was 5 years old at that time <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->
Willy
- Jeg er engelsk - bor i Danmark, forstår dansk - men foretrækker at skrive på engelsk Icon_smil
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#6
Jeg tror ikke man kan svare uden at have et økonomisk perspektiv. Så lad mig bare forsøge at give et svar på ure, der som nye koster omkring 5-10 tusinde. Det er selvfølgelig naivt at tro, at at ETA baseret ur til den pris har sjæl; nej det kommer fra en ur-fabrik, der putter et værk fra en værk-fabrik ind i en kasser, der matcher et ønsket brand/udtryk. Længere er den ikke. Men find så lige et quartz ur i den samme prisklasse. Det er der altså heller ikke megen sjæl i; og værket koster vel iøvrigt ikke meget mindre at producere end det mekaniske fra ETA eller Selita. Og jeg vil altså til enhver tid vælge det mekaniske.

Men hvis vi så går op omkring 25.000 eller mere, så er vi nok der, hvor jeg slet ikke ville overveje et ETA baseret, næsten uanset hvor meget finish, der er lagt ovenpå det rå værk fra ETA. Men findes der high-end quartz i denne prisklasse, så hvor skulle sammenligningen komme fra? I denne prisklasse er jeg helt enig med en af dine pointer, willy, at man betaler alt for meget for et brand, når det i virkeligheden blot er et ETA. Men det er ikke fordi, jeg i stedet ville vælge high-end quartz.

Vi kan også tage "Rolex-segmentet", hvor jeg so som bekendt er. Hånden på hjertet - jeg er da udmærket klar over, at når man køber et Rolex til måske 40.000 kr, så er det stadig ikke nogen særlig stor del af den pris, der er gået til udvikling og produktion af værket. Og jeg vil da ikke udelukke, at jeg kunne finde på et købe et Oysterquartz.

Som John Hannover er inde på, så er det formentlig i langt højere grad andre parametre end "værdien af værket", der afgør, hvad man vælger at købe. Vi, der er her på urforum eller andre tilsvarende steder, udgør jo ganske afgjort ikke en repræsentativ del af befolkningen, og det, der afgør valget for os, er ganske givet noget, som lang hovedparten af befolkningen synes er ganske ligegyldigt. Men det er vel nok kun de ekstremt få, der ikke har prisen med som en parameter.

/Bjørn.
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#7
Ure med sjæl, som er så et populært udtryk handler for mit vedkommende ikke om værket, men om manden, som har skabt mærket.

Passion er nøgleuret <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> (nøgleordet).

Jeg synes at Raymond Weil, som døde for ikke så lang tid siden har haft stor passion siden 1976.
Og det syndes han da også selv ifølge dette interview for nogle år siden.

[url]"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-NJgyV-qjU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-NJgyV-qjU[/url]

Om selve mærket:

[url]"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Weil">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Weil[/url]
Svar
#8
Stenstrup Skrev:Ure med sjæl, som er så et populært udtryk handler for mit vedkommende ikke om værket, men om manden, som har skabt mærket.

Passion er nøgleuret <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> (nøgleordet).

Jeg synes at Raymond Weil, som døde for ikke så lang tid siden har haft stor passion siden 1976.
Og det syndes han da også selv ifølge dette interview for nogle år siden.

[url]"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-NJgyV-qjU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-NJgyV-qjU[/url]

Om selve mærket:

[url]"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Weil">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Weil[/url]
Raymond seems like a nice man with a love for watches . But Raymond did nothing
to further the development of watchmaking . He made good quality watches for a fair price in my opinion , and i take my hat off for that.
He found a nich in the market and developed his brand to fit that nich . But he will not be remembered for any great contribution to
watchmaking . In my book real passion is what F:J:Journe or George Daniels have if we are talking about making watches and not just money

Willy
- Jeg er engelsk - bor i Danmark, forstår dansk - men foretrækker at skrive på engelsk Icon_smil
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#9
Citat:Raymond seems like a nice man with a love for watches . But Raymond did nothing
to further the development of watchmaking . He made good quality watches for a fair price in my opinion , and i take my hat off for that.
He found a nich in the market and developed his brand to fit that nich . But he will not be remembered for any great contribution to
watchmaking . In my book real passion is what F:J:Journe or George Daniels have if we are talking about making watches and not just money

Willy


+1
Mvh. John - nu under det sorte flag*.
(*Jolly Roger, ikke IS !  Icon_blink )
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